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JamesNT

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Reply with quote  #1 
When the Cloud first came out, many were afraid for their jobs.  It was seen as yet another round of outsourcing.  So here are the questions:

Did the Cloud turn into the all encompassing job destroyer so many thought it was?

Has the Cloud brought the efficiencies and cost savings promised?

Here is what I've seen:

The Cloud has destroyed jobs.  But the majority were the Next, Next, Finish jobs of low end tech-support and the "mom-and-pop" tech shops around town that we all hated anyway because we had to clean up their messes (how many hosed SBS 2003 boxes have you seen?).  Most of the high-end jobs were relatively safe.  Those that learned PowerShell and branched out into other areas such as Business Intelligence and Development were especially safe.  Yes, some people had to change jobs, but that's not the same as not having a job.

The Cloud has been a lot of hype.  While some companies have realized efficiencies - especially start-ups, many companies are realizing the Cloud is a break-even prospect.  For many companies, moving to the Cloud actually increased cost because of additional management required or because they had been fudging on licensing all that time.  Many of the firms that specialized on moving companies to the Cloud now also specialize on moving companies off the Cloud as well.

Microsoft is the ONLY company that truly "gets" the Cloud.  Their approach of Hybrid Cloud and giving customers the ability to move data back and forth as needed is awesome.  Yes, software offerings in the Cloud get new features first, but many of us just consider that free beta testers.  With Microsoft now offering Azure for On-Prem deployments to allow companies to set up their own in-house Cloud, many companies can have true versatility.

Compliance is what it is.  HIPAA, Sarbanes-Ox, Nuclear, these things will keep many companies off the Cloud.  MS recognizes this (at least so far).  It's competitors, not so much.

Conclusion:  The Cloud has done what I thought it would do.  It did not come in and take over.  Rather, it found a place in the market and did us all the favor of cutting out much of the chafe.  Yes, there was some collateral damage along the way, but not as much as feared.  There are some companies that truly regret moving to the Cloud because their data is now trapped there forever and they can't get it back.  I see this a lot of this in the medical world with Electronic Medical Records systems that are hosted in the Cloud or written as Cloud applications.  Other companies, however, are glad to be in the Cloud because they never had good IT to begin with from the "mom-and-pop" guys.  And, finally, I'm seeing a resurgence of On-Prem.  The reason is customization.  Companies want the ability to customize work flows and that's still hard to do in the Cloud.  The enabler for going back On-Prem is eBay.  As datacenters refresh hardware, every once in a while on eBay there will be a big price drop on used equipment that is only three years old and lived a comfortable life in a cozy datacenter.  This means equipment that used to cost almost $20,000, such as the Dell PowerVault 3200, can now be had for $3,000 and that's with drives. 

I look forward to your opinions.

JamesNT

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jsclmedave

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Reply with quote  #2 
The processes are a HUGE part of it that I have seen.  Some think that unicorns & rainbows will magically appear going to the cloud and often realize too late that their processes that are HORRIBLE are just as HORRIBLE only quicker in the cloud...

Garbage in Garbage Out!  Doesn't matter if its on premises or not.

I am also SICK of hearing "We cant do that here" after being repeatedly told by Microsoft Security and endless vendors, that we are doing something wrong and how to resolve it.

So honestly, the processes and the attitude MUST change in order to fix what is wrong.  We cannot continue to do the same thing over and over and expect different results.  Doing the same thing in the cloud will just present the same bad results...

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Doug G

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Reply with quote  #3 
"The Cloud" would have been inaccessible for 3 days as our new FIOS company, Frontier, misconfigured their network somewhere and knocked my internet off the air.  Followed by a parade of clueless techs until this morning when a former Verizon tech came to my site and knew who to talk to to get things fixed.

Anyway, I was glad I've always resisted putting anything important to me on the cloud.  My music library, video stuff and accounting are all on local systems.

In addition to my recent problems, I don't like the idea of private sensitive things residing out of my control.  I don't like the thought of a cloud provider going out of business an nuking my data.  I don't like the idea of a cloud provider selling out to another company I'd rather not do business with.  Etc., etc.

Some things are nice, I have a couple Digital Ocean cloud-based linux servers that I'm glad not to have physically here.

$0.000000000000000002

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donoli

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Reply with quote  #4 
The Cloud is really just someone else's computer, in someone else's data center, probably running vhosts with someone else's minimal security model.  What happened to renting individual servers?  Is the price that much different?  

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jsclmedave

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Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug G
"The Cloud" would have been inaccessible for 3 days as our new FIOS company, Frontier, misconfigured their network somewhere and knocked my internet off the air.  Followed by a parade of clueless techs until this morning when a former Verizon tech came to my site and knew who to talk to to get things fixed.

Anyway, I was glad I've always resisted putting anything important to me on the cloud.  My music library, video stuff and accounting are all on local systems.

In addition to my recent problems, I don't like the idea of private sensitive things residing out of my control.  I don't like the thought of a cloud provider going out of business an nuking my data.  I don't like the idea of a cloud provider selling out to another company I'd rather not do business with.  Etc., etc.

Some things are nice, I have a couple Digital Ocean cloud-based linux servers that I'm glad not to have physically here.

$0.000000000000000002


Ugh!  Frontier..!   I have not had the patience to make that complaint call yet for our Home FIOS service that is now spotty at best since they took it over from Verizon...

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jaxdave

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsclmedave
The processes are a HUGE part of it that I have seen.  Some think that unicorns & rainbows will magically appear going to the cloud and often realize too late that their processes that are HORRIBLE are just as HORRIBLE only quicker in the cloud...

Garbage in Garbage Out!  Doesn't matter if its on premises or not.

I am also SICK of hearing "We cant do that here" after being repeatedly told by Microsoft Security and endless vendors, that we are doing something wrong and how to resolve it.

So honestly, the processes and the attitude MUST change in order to fix what is wrong.  We cannot continue to do the same thing over and over and expect different results.  Doing the same thing in the cloud will just present the same bad results...


"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
-Albert Einstein


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wobble_wobble

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Reply with quote  #7 
The cloud is outsourcing...
We put UPS on the servers, use dual BIOS, RAID arrays, share storage, multipath connectivity, faliover/ HA/ DRS Clusters.
You need to do the same in the cloud, just different fail-safes.
The Cloud Fairies™ will not drop Cloud Dust™ on your solution for free. You have to pay for it.

If you go to the cloud, of any type, you need 2 (TWO) or more decent connections to the internet to get to your cloud.
MS use 450Kbps as a user requirement per site, we could probably tune that down a bit.

As Tim mentioned....rubbish in, rubbish out.
If you have a bad engineer, bad customer or bad program, the cloud ain't going to fix that.

Cloud applications need to be MVC style applications or Browser aware, otherwise its a RDS Server/ RDS Farm/ VDI solution in the cloud to get close to it.
And having data in "'the cloud' and your VDI/SBC in another "cloud", unless they are in the one infrastructure you control and can kick, it may still be rubbish.



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JamesNT

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Reply with quote  #8 
I've just about come to the conclusion that all the people who keep pushing cloud to me are on the take.

Just about....

JamesNT

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Mark

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Reply with quote  #9 
Well, or are facing a demand from upper management for op-ex AND competitive pressures because of all of the IT costs being saved by their competition.

(Saved, that is, in the SHORT term.... )

I keep meaning to set up a side business showing people how to create and execute "Cloud Eject!" DR plans for when the cloud gets unreliable or tripled in price.

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wobble_wobble

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark


I keep meaning to set up a side business showing people how to create and execute "Cloud Eject!" DR plans for when the cloud gets unreliable or tripled in price.


The Cloud Parachute.

But is that not a decent backup?
I really like Veeams solutions and some of others with the ease built in.

We're struggling to come up with a decent solution for SOX compliant customers, that have consumed Azure backups on EA and MS now wanting us to move to CSP.

And the solution provided is the rainbow rabbit unicorn that Tim spoke about, that farts Cloud Fairy Dust™

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Matthew

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Reply with quote  #11 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark
..plans for when the cloud gets unreliable or tripled in price.


the best analogy i can think of right now is cell phones.  remember when they were cheap and you had more than 3 provider choices?


I see the "cloud" going through the same.  right now lot of money to be made signing companies up for cloud services.  sooner or later the new subscription rate will drop and to make the revenue will require...raising the prices, or charging for previously free "stuff", reduction in support staff to take calls and provide support.  etc.


the puffy cloud may have it's place, but so far in "my world", no one is thinking further ahead than the next quarterly report. 

 

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Mark

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Reply with quote  #12 
Yup, "Cloud Parachute" would probably be a good biz if I had time to set it up. [smile] 
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cspanburgh

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Reply with quote  #13 
Well, I have heard the objections to cloud technology from my friends here for quite a while.
Years in fact.    I think our last Minasicon meeting was in 2007 if my messed up memory serves me.

On the way home to the airport, I had a phone conference of editors with Windows IT Pro magazine.

It was to discuss possible articles for upcoming issues.

So, I brought up cloud technologies.  There was some objection about the adoption of technologies that are going to take peoples jobs away.    My response was " This is the world that we techs created and now you don't want it?"

If fact I was inspired by smarter people than myself to start crafting systems in data centers that could allow for data to be accessed by devices with other platforms and get their data anytime as long as.............wait for it............................   the internet connection could be made.

There is the rub.   How do you secure that?    Even without using what we traditionally now call the cloud, this was difficult.   In fact, we are awaiting some improvements in the HTTP 2.0 standard that can help us in regard to data transfer issues that cause some providers to use throttling.   So some data is not going to be in real time.  Which will mean a need for wait states in processes that are to move forward only after parameters are correctly supplied.  We see this in web services in the Dynamics area. 
For a while we had to show Microsoft that there were "Virtual 18456" SQL errors when connecting to a cloud app that had a SQL back end.     As you know we do not connect to the SQL server directly but rather go though the metadata layer.    We had to really emphasis to the product group that if this was not resolved the adoption would never happen. 
They brought in a very wise and seasoned tech from Europe.    He really changed things.   But I remember telling him that many IT people would have to step up to the plate or get fired if they did not get the new world of moving data and apps through the cloud.

I remember Mark saying quite a while ago that most people forget that we are using a world wide database already called DNS.   And our friend who was instrumental in started up AWS, gave a very interesting talk to a large audience about the data center of the future.   What he described was what we now understand is Cloud IT infrastructure.

That being said, the "Cloud" is just flexibility.  Just a new blend.    It will take the seasoned techs to make the best business use of it.   Already, MSFT is working on better two way data traffic from Cloud to on premise and back again. 

Data aggregates are now an everyday process.  Machine learning and IoT are realities now.  
Stuff in our data centers had problems.   The cloud just offers us a new way to do what we always have been doing.   In fact " That is a quote from what a meeting we had in the South East division MSFT office.   Very interesting meeting there.   I wish all of you could have been there.  









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