Mark Minasi's Tech Forum
Sign up Calendar Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 2 of 6      Prev   1   2   3   4   5   Next   »
sionnan

Still Checking the Forum Out
Registered:
Posts: 2
Reply with quote  #16 
As long as a federal court orders Apple to help the FBI gain access to important info on an iPhone I'm all for that. This way the FBI doesn't get to gain access to any phone they feel like. Instead they actually have to prove to a federal judge why they need access, and gain approval.
People who think this will allow the FBI access to every-bodies iphones concern may be misplaced. Your iphone was built in China, where the gov't has 100% control of everything. They have reversed engineered the iphones and could probably have access whenever they want.
0
DennisMCSE

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 172
Reply with quote  #17 
The court order doesn't ask that Apple unlock the phone. What the court order states is that Apple create a brand new custom version of the iOS9 software. What the new iOS software will be able to do is allow the FBI to bypass the security measures on the iPhone. Once that piece of software is created, it can't be uncreated. It's out in the open. And when there are people like Edward Snowden and Kevin Mitnick who can hack into secure sites, that software that is created won't stay locked away in Apple or the FBI's hands for very long before bad people get access to it. And when bad people get enough of your personal information, they can create fake ID's and do bad things in your name (at least that's what they do on TV [smile] [wink].

An encrypted device is only as secure as the as the protections around it. And even though the FBI say's that it will only be used in this one circumstance, what the FBI is trying to do is set a precedent. What's the old saying again "give people an inch and they'll take a mile".

So they are not only asking for Apple help, which Apple has done and has even assigned some of their staff to help the FBI, they are asking Apple to create brand new code. So it's like not just asking for a key to your house, but having the builder build a new door to your house that only the FBI has a key to.

Joe, I can appreciate that you have nothing to hide or have information that you aren't really worried if someone takes it. I have nothing to hide either, but that doesn't mean I want someone playing around in my house when I'm not around. I bought a house with door that has a lock in it for a reason. It's my house and it should be my decision who enters it or not. Yes someone may break in, but at least I put forward security measures as I'm able to to protect what is mine.

And if articles like this are any indication ( https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying ) once a government has another tool for spying on citizens, it will use it against ordinary citizens, not just criminals.


0
DennisMCSE

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 172
Reply with quote  #18 

The 227-Year-Old Statute Being Used to Order Apple to Endanger Your Privacy, Explained

http://gizmodo.com/the-227-year-old-statute-being-used-to-order-apple-into-1759736160

0
wobble_wobble

Avatar / Picture

Associate Troublemaker Apprentice
Registered:
Posts: 910
Reply with quote  #19 

Dennis

First off...All the data that Apple collects and sends back to iCloud, how much of a security threat is that?
They have you fingerprint and picture.
They know you normal movements and at what time.
They know your current location and what your going to do for the next god knows (my own phone has my calender for work and family for the next 5 months, complete with locations)
Your fitness level and overall state of affairs.
If you in your house, gone for a run, partying, in a different land mass.

Is that data safe with Apple?

How many Devs worked on the code for the SE, for the security features.
How many TFS sites, or private Subvention sites, or private forks are there with the production code and test code and dev code, with the backdoor to figure out why the code didn't work first time are there?
How many CA's that sign the Apple code is there?
Are those people safe and secured away by Apple?
Is that data safe with Apple?

Might I suggest we have a Schrodinger's Cat situation now...

So before this blew up there may or may not have been a definitive fork of the code that bypassed the security. (I'd bet a decent night in Hooter there was during testing of the security enclave they designed.)
Now - how many of the IOS Devs have their own ideas on a code fork to bypass that?
Are those people safe and secured away by Apple?
Is that data safe with Apple?

I think there are some really grey answers to those questions.... 

Can't we file this tool, and that is another definition for what the FBI want, stay in the same place/ state/ behind the same security that Apple use for the above information, data, code and keep it safe that way?

We as IT people need to be part of the discussions and help to at least frame this.
We should be more informed that most. Its our job to try to understand the technology and then to try to pass the knowledge on.

Running around on one hand saying oh woe is us the government want a backdoor - they have have all the back doors they want:
Warrants to enter our houses, computers, clouds. When you go in or out of a country your photographed, finger printed. credit card followed and checked. They wipe you with pads to find things. When you buy a car, insure it, tax it, drive it. You buy insurance for your house, you pay for your water and they know when your going to shower (probably) on Sunday. 
Big data - thats big data, what the government has on us all.

I'm not naive, I know they know too much about me.
The only people safe are those truly disconnected or as close to disconnected as one can get nowadays.
https://www.quora.com/Which-place-on-earth-is-the-least-connected-from-other-places


So on one hand Apple are telling us we're great, we can keep all of your private, personal, secret information safe from everyone.
And then on the other hand, they are shouting we can't keep our private, damn extra secret data safe.

I'm now off to read the link you posted.




__________________
Have you tried turning it off and walking away? The next person can fix it!

New to the forum? Read this
0
wobble_wobble

Avatar / Picture

Associate Troublemaker Apprentice
Registered:
Posts: 910
Reply with quote  #20 
Dennis

While its an interesting article, it doesn't look at how forward looking the creators of the Statute were.

We need statutes like this to help us in situations that are new, extraordinary and outside of normal precedence and we need to have a discussion or need our judiciary make a decision on our behalf.

I don't have a great deal of info on how the US or Canada deal with laws, new laws and tough situations like this.

Here we have courts, two chambers and the President with his Council of State.
We have not had this technology problem yet, but we have had many many more.

When we have serious terrorism or organised criminal issues, these case get sent to the Special Criminal Court. 
These are juryless courts, where the decision is made purely by the three Judge's on cases where there are very serious threats to the State from terrorism and serious organised crime cases.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Criminal_Court
Some older history of the court
http://politico.ie/archive/very-special-criminal-court 

None of this is ideal, its never ideal - but its the best we have right now, and in a democracy we try to keep a majority happy.






__________________
Have you tried turning it off and walking away? The next person can fix it!

New to the forum? Read this
0
nick

Avatar / Picture

Still Famous
Registered:
Posts: 89
Reply with quote  #21 
I hear 'freedom' and 'democracy' mentioned a lot in this thread.

It's only about power. Data and information is the new power.

Make no mistake. If this passes, it will be used against ordinary citizens.

__________________
Nick Whittome | NTES Limited | Personal Blog | New to the forum? Read this
0
JamesNT

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 142
Reply with quote  #22 
My friends,

There is one very important thing to keep in mind regarding debates like these:  You opinion of what should happen will be determined by which side of the hospital emergency room door you're standing at.

JamesNT

__________________
I miss Windows NT 4.0 Service Pack 4.
0
donoli

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 598
Reply with quote  #23 
Where can I get a crystal ball like yours? There is no way of knowing if cracking that iphone will prevent future attacks.  Encryption didn't facilitate the attacks, bad immigration policy & neighbors' sealed lips did.  BTW, the phone belonged to their employer, the county not the terrorists.
0
DennisMCSE

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 172
Reply with quote  #24 
Joe,

I absolutely respect your point of view, but most of what you said just strengthens my view that Apple should not do this.

As you state, the government already has enough backdoors to get the information they need. Why do they need another one? Apple has provided engineers to help the FBI find information without having another back door created. The FBI doesn't even know if there is any information it can use on the iPhone in the first place. It's just guessing that there might be. And if they haven't been able to find anything using other methods, then chances are there's nothing to find on the iPhone as well. Most likely the terrorists used burner phones and threw them out before they did what they did.

And as IT people we absolutely need to be part of the discussion. And part of that discussion is that we, as IT people, are telling everyone to secure their information, lock down their social media profiles to minimize people being able to impersonate them, implement two factor authentication on their banking information, teach their kids to be safe online, install firewalls and virus protection to safeguard their computers, etc., then in the next breath telling people that all the safeguards we're telling them to use don't matter because they can be hacked anyway (legally hacked by court order or by the bad guys). That will just make people have a "why bother" attitude to security.

If Apple does end up doing this and it gets out that the security measures are able to be modified, then you can bet that every hacker out their will redouble their efforts to create their own copy of that tool to modify the security measures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wobble_wobble


"We as IT people need to be part of the discussions and help to at least frame this.
We should be more informed that most. Its our job to try to understand the technology and then to try to pass the knowledge on.

Running around on one hand saying oh woe is us the government want a backdoor - they have have all the back doors they want:
Warrants to enter our houses, computers, clouds. When you go in or out of a country your photographed, finger printed. credit card followed and checked. They wipe you with pads to find things. When you buy a car, insure it, tax it, drive it. You buy insurance for your house, you pay for your water and they know when your going to shower (probably) on Sunday. 
Big data - thats big data, what the government has on us all."

0
DennisMCSE

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 172
Reply with quote  #25 
The FBI directors response to Apple's letter:

"His letter includes an appeal for a national conversation about “how to both embrace the technology we love and get the safety we need.” Comey, who became the FBI’s director in 2013, said there is “a serious tension between two values we all treasure — privacy and safety.”

“That tension should not be resolved by corporations that sell stuff for a living. It also should not be resolved by the FBI, which investigates for a living,” wrote Comey, whose prior gigs include serving as deputy attorney general and working as general counsel for defense giant Lockheed Martin and Ray Dalio’s hedge fund, Bridgewater Associates.

“It should be resolved by the American people deciding how we want to govern ourselves in a world we have never seen before. We shouldn’t drift to a place — or be pushed to a place by the loudest voices,” Comey said."




http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fbi-director-on-apple-fight-stop-saying-the-world-is-ending-2016-02-22?siteid=nwhneedtoknow

0
wobble_wobble

Avatar / Picture

Associate Troublemaker Apprentice
Registered:
Posts: 910
Reply with quote  #26 
Dennis

His full letter is here - https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-director-comments-on-san-bernardino-matter



__________________
Have you tried turning it off and walking away? The next person can fix it!

New to the forum? Read this
0
wobble_wobble

Avatar / Picture

Associate Troublemaker Apprentice
Registered:
Posts: 910
Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick
I hear 'freedom' and 'democracy' mentioned a lot in this thread. It's only about power. Data and information is the new power. Make no mistake. If this passes, it will be used against ordinary citizens.


Nick,

Oddly enough I would agree that the idea, ideals and notions of freedom and democracy have been discussed a lot here.

With regard to where the power is - data and information has always been the root of power since the first days.



__________________
Have you tried turning it off and walking away? The next person can fix it!

New to the forum? Read this
0
wobble_wobble

Avatar / Picture

Associate Troublemaker Apprentice
Registered:
Posts: 910
Reply with quote  #28 
Double post - deleted text.

__________________
Have you tried turning it off and walking away? The next person can fix it!

New to the forum? Read this
0
DennisMCSE

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 172
Reply with quote  #29 
Most of the technology companies are siding with Apple, but looks like Bill Gates is agreeing with the FBI:

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/technology/bill-gates-apple-iphone-unlock-1.3459619
0
wobble_wobble

Avatar / Picture

Associate Troublemaker Apprentice
Registered:
Posts: 910
Reply with quote  #30 
Viewpoint from Trevor Pott that probably expresses my point of view much better than I did.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/17/why_tim_cook_is_wrong_a_privacy_advocates_view/

__________________
Have you tried turning it off and walking away? The next person can fix it!

New to the forum? Read this
0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.